Splitting heirs

[sacramentalist]

What is the message to adopted people when everyone clarifies Dylan Farrow was an "adopted" daughter? Are they pointing out the contrast to Soon-Yi Previn, the step-daughter the man groomed and married? Or are they minimizing his role as a goddamned parent? Well, it wasn't "rape" rape. And she wasn't his "daughter" daughter.

Comments

[bronnyelsp.livejournal.com]

While I don't want to a) say that it wasn't skeevy for Woody Allen to start a sexual relationship with a woman to whom he was a parental figure when she was a child; b) say that if Woody Allen did sexually molest this other woman when she was a child, that isn't horrific; c) say in any way that someone's adopted child is not their child, I do think
-the taboo against paedophilia is about safe spaces for children.
-the taboo against incest is about propagation of a healthy species (after all, it's a taboo that extends to adulthood and to peer-to-peer blood relationships).
I realise you say "one of the reasons" and specify parent-to-child incest, but I just think that's artificial. The ban on incest is about specific blood relations you shouldn't have sex with. The ban on paedophilia is about protecting children. Parent/child incest is the intersection of those two taboos, but IMO the protecting children bit comes from the ban on paedophilia -- and disappears once the child is in fact an adult.

[sacramentalist.livejournal.com]

That's an interesting way to aggregate the taboos.

If I married my 26 year old former stepdaughter, I'm certain people would want to stone me. "How did we meet? It's a funny story. I used to sleep with her mother in the next room. Oh, I've known her since she was 8."

[bronnyelsp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, which is sick because a) it invites the idea that you sexualised her from that age and b) you were in a parental role which carries with it an uneven power balance through most, if not all, of life -- even into adulthood.

[sacramentalist.livejournal.com]

Well, I creeped it up a little for effect. We usually waited until they were at their father's place :)

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

b) you were in a parental role which carries with it an uneven power balance through most, if not all, of life -- even into adulthood.

...which is exactly why incest is also a safe-space-for-children taboo and not just a genetic taboo.

[bronnyelsp.livejournal.com]

I disagree for precisely the reason that it wouldn't be incest if sacramentalist had either abused his stepdaughter as a child or had formed a relationship with her as an adult. The former would be disgusting and wrong and paedophilic. The latter would have been creepy and also disgusting and wrong and paedophilic if his attraction to her formed when she was a child and he just "waited" till she was of age. But it wouldn't be incest.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

I realise you say "one of the reasons" and specify parent-to-child incest, but I just think that's artificial. The ban on incest is about specific blood relations you shouldn't have sex with.

I disagree. I think that just because incest taboos extend into adulthood doesn't mean that they cannot also be motivated by the need to preserve safe spaces for kids.

We actually discussed this and read bits on it from various authorities in my family law class. I don't think any of these things is as clear-cut as you seem to think, and I'm not sure why you think they are.

[bronnyelsp.livejournal.com]

I think I'm coming at it from a family law perspective, actually.

I agree that emotionally, psychological parenthood is really the only type that matters. And a parent having sex with a child who is not related to them is emotionally just as damaging as a parent having sex with their biological child. But it isn't incest. Incest is sexual relations that are taboo because of close blood relationship.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

I didn't say WA/SY was incest. I said one of the reasons for the incest ban is safe-space-for-kids (power disparity dynamics).

[bronnyelsp.livejournal.com]

I think it's working backwards to say that's one of the reasons. The incest ban dates from prehistoric times, when frankly child sexual safety was not a big concern.

[sacramentalist.livejournal.com]

I was just going to ask you why you're calling out my friends, but then I realized she was your friend first :P

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

Also, she called me out first.

[sacramentalist.livejournal.com]

Is there a Latin legalese phrase for saying "He started it, your honour?"

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

no but THERE OUGHT TO BE

[sacramentalist.livejournal.com]

I just happened to have been on a latin translate page.

"Instituerat, Marko."

"Et Ego evagemur persequendo, Consilium"

[sacramentalist.livejournal.com]

Maybe, incipiēbātur

Oh well.

[bronnyelsp.livejournal.com]

I would probably say "since my learned friend has raised this issue.". I realise it's not Latin, but perhaps sufficiently pompous?

[morningapproach.livejournal.com]

I understand entirely what you are saying about the taboos. I don't think that paedophilia is appropriate, or should be permissible, but I do agree that it is centrally centered around safe spaces. The incest taboo is never one I entirely understood, especially when it applies to adults. I get the purity of the healthy species, you don't want to keep inbreeding recessive genes. We see what happens. But when there are no children involved, no propogation, I got no issues with it from a scientific stand point. If it is two consenting adults, who cares? I do get the squick factor though...