Well-Tempered Hyperbole

Ewwwww

Adoptive counts!
Step counts!

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Well, I don't know if he's a pedo. He's skeezy for marrying his stepdaughter. However, I just hate the qualification of adopted daughter. I guess people just do it to differentiate her with his step-daughter, now wife. For such a low-profile man, he sure can have a ruckus.

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I didn't really see the hooplah until I had my own step-daughter. I split with her mother 10 years ago. She's 26. If we were date, it would be skeezy.

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bular.livejournal.com

How do you feel about Whitney Houston's children getting married? :)

Ben is adopted, and it drives him absolutely batty when people say things like "my adopted sister." One of his friends has a sister who is Native American, and he always calls her "the adopted Indian child" like she's somehow less of a person, less of a sister, less of a child to his parents. I'm pretty sure if someone called Ben "the adopted Cuban child" they'd catch a fist to the face.

From: (Anonymous)

How can you not know? He sexualized at least two little girls. That makes him a pedo.

I don't like the classification either. I think it's used by some people to try to make what happened less horrific somehow. It doesn't of course.

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lyricmaniac.livejournal.com

Sorry, wasn't signed in, but that was me.

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I don't know the story, but I'd say they sound a bit like they were raised in an unstable household. I'm not Stephen King so I can make stupid offhand observations without consequence.

The Royal Tenenbaums really punctuated the "Margo, my 'adoptive' daughter" thing.

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revdj.livejournal.com

Soon-Yi wasn't his step-daughter.

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Splitting hairs, Soon-yi was too old to put him in the "pedo" category. I don't see why this woman has a reason to lie. And I certainly know many many people have to watch their sexual predator live on and be around children.

OK, maybe I just like saying "Woody didn't 'rape' rape any of his 'daughter' daughters".

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Whatever. She was the daughter of his partner of many years, even if they didn't live in the same house, or have sexual congress for 10 years.

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keypike.livejournal.com

It's terrible. I also dint understand how people can hear someone say "this is what happened to me", and then defend him.

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nimnod.livejournal.com

Yes. The whole thing blows my mind.

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the legalities don't really matter as much as the reality of the situation/power disparity.

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I think some people think that as long as a daughter is adopted, it can't REALLY be incest.

But one of the reasons for the parent/child-incest-ban is that we instinctively feel that there should be safe spaces for children. They should not be sexually exploited by the big strong adults that they live with and have to obey. Regardless of whether those adults are blood-related or not.

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Yeah! Splitting heirs.

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rubyelf.livejournal.com

My daughter is adopted. SHE IS MY DAUGHTER. This is not negotiable. She is MY CHILD. The fact that I did not genetically contribute to her conception does not make me not her mother.

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While I don't want to a) say that it wasn't skeevy for Woody Allen to start a sexual relationship with a woman to whom he was a parental figure when she was a child; b) say that if Woody Allen did sexually molest this other woman when she was a child, that isn't horrific; c) say in any way that someone's adopted child is not their child, I do think
-the taboo against paedophilia is about safe spaces for children.
-the taboo against incest is about propagation of a healthy species (after all, it's a taboo that extends to adulthood and to peer-to-peer blood relationships).
I realise you say "one of the reasons" and specify parent-to-child incest, but I just think that's artificial. The ban on incest is about specific blood relations you shouldn't have sex with. The ban on paedophilia is about protecting children. Parent/child incest is the intersection of those two taboos, but IMO the protecting children bit comes from the ban on paedophilia -- and disappears once the child is in fact an adult.

Edited Date: 2014-02-04 05:23 pm (UTC)

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revdj.livejournal.com

I get it. But the original post is about words - about how (as I interpreted it - sacramentalist will correct me if I'm wrong) "rape" is rape. And how when people point out that Dylan was an "adopted" daughter they are minimizing the fact that she is his daughter. So I was correcting misinformation, which I thought was relevant to the post.

If the post was just talking about Woody Allen's behavior, I wouldn't have said anything.

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I think people just don't think.

Know how people love the Coors Light twins? Then once they realize sex with twins is incest, they sorta squick a bit.

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That's an interesting way to aggregate the taboos.

If I married my 26 year old former stepdaughter, I'm certain people would want to stone me. "How did we meet? It's a funny story. I used to sleep with her mother in the next room. Oh, I've known her since she was 8."

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No. I appreciate your comment. My whatever was dismissive, I admit. I originally thought you were dismissing the situation even more, but you were clarifying the relationship of Soon-Yi in my post. Which means there's no reason to qualify Dylan is an "adoptive" daughter, anyway.. So I guess he didn't bid for custody or access.

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Yeah, which is sick because a) it invites the idea that you sexualised her from that age and b) you were in a parental role which carries with it an uneven power balance through most, if not all, of life -- even into adulthood.

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Well, I creeped it up a little for effect. We usually waited until they were at their father's place :)

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And now that I gave tech support to my dad on the phone, I'm wishing I was adopted. Hahahahahahaha. Sigh!

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Hmm. I find the FB threads I've seen have end with a little compassion once someone comes out as abused.

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Nods to Nimnod

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I realise you say "one of the reasons" and specify parent-to-child incest, but I just think that's artificial. The ban on incest is about specific blood relations you shouldn't have sex with.

I disagree. I think that just because incest taboos extend into adulthood doesn't mean that they cannot also be motivated by the need to preserve safe spaces for kids.

We actually discussed this and read bits on it from various authorities in my family law class. I don't think any of these things is as clear-cut as you seem to think, and I'm not sure why you think they are.

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I think I'm coming at it from a family law perspective, actually.

I agree that emotionally, psychological parenthood is really the only type that matters. And a parent having sex with a child who is not related to them is emotionally just as damaging as a parent having sex with their biological child. But it isn't incest. Incest is sexual relations that are taboo because of close blood relationship.

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I was just going to ask you why you're calling out my friends, but then I realized she was your friend first :P

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b) you were in a parental role which carries with it an uneven power balance through most, if not all, of life -- even into adulthood.

...which is exactly why incest is also a safe-space-for-children taboo and not just a genetic taboo.

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I didn't say WA/SY was incest. I said one of the reasons for the incest ban is safe-space-for-kids (power disparity dynamics).

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Also, she called me out first.

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Is there a Latin legalese phrase for saying "He started it, your honour?"

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no but THERE OUGHT TO BE

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I just happened to have been on a latin translate page.

"Instituerat, Marko."

"Et Ego evagemur persequendo, Consilium"

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Maybe, incipiēbātur

Oh well.

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elsewhereangel.livejournal.com

This. To me, you just go on the safe side when things like incest are on the table. Looks like it could be incest? Might be interpreted as incest? Find yourself saying quasi-incestous? Don't Do It.

Fun Fact: My college roommate's mom was in a quasi-incestuous relationship with her half-sister. Ended with restraining orders for everyone.

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zimon66

Blood or not, what he didn't wasn't ok. Took advantage of girls who were far younger than he is. Neither of them had a fraction of his worldly experience. They were kids and they looked up to him as an adult, a trusted adult.

Like Roman Polanski: Yes, you're a brilliant filmmaker. Yes, your life was hit hard several times with tragedy. Yes, you have greatly suffered from those many painful loses. No, none of that excuses you from what you did. No, support from all those fans and peers doesn't excuse you, either.

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morningapproach.livejournal.com

I understand entirely what you are saying about the taboos. I don't think that paedophilia is appropriate, or should be permissible, but I do agree that it is centrally centered around safe spaces. The incest taboo is never one I entirely understood, especially when it applies to adults. I get the purity of the healthy species, you don't want to keep inbreeding recessive genes. We see what happens. But when there are no children involved, no propogation, I got no issues with it from a scientific stand point. If it is two consenting adults, who cares? I do get the squick factor though...

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dorei.livejournal.com

Just to keep the facts straight - Soon-Yi wasn't his stepdaughter as he was never married to Mia Farrow. That said,Dylan's story is horrid.

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I disagree for precisely the reason that it wouldn't be incest if

sacramentalist had either abused his stepdaughter as a child or had formed a relationship with her as an adult. The former would be disgusting and wrong and paedophilic. The latter would have been creepy and also disgusting and wrong and paedophilic if his attraction to her formed when she was a child and he just "waited" till she was of age. But it wouldn't be incest.

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I think it's working backwards to say that's one of the reasons. The incest ban dates from prehistoric times, when frankly child sexual safety was not a big concern.

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I would probably say "since my learned friend has raised this issue.". I realise it's not Latin, but perhaps sufficiently pompous?

Edited Date: 2014-02-05 11:40 am (UTC)

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